It is the final argument that I find most interesting: do such caricatures poison the well of discourse, making the trust between different groups - a trust that constitutes the foundation for civil society - impossible?
So, in deference to the sensibilities of our readers, let me just say that none of the contributors on Singabloodypore will post images depicting the Prophet. We may link to them, but we will not show them at all.
Now. This is what we can show you instead. I hope no one will be offended.
I have a question for soci, since he's in the UK.
ReplyDeleteSince the publication of the caricatures in major European nations,
1. There are no Muslim riots in France
2. There are no Muslim riots in Germany
3. There are no Muslim riots in Denmark (furthermore, a group of Muslims held a counterprotest to support the newspaper editor)
and all 3 countries have sizeable Muslim populations in their cities.
4. The only riots and violent protests have broken out in countries far, far away from the continent - and lacking complete political freedom and human rights.
5. Why is UK such an exception?
So, are you indirectly wished to see more riots or more world peace and harmony happening in this world?
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think it is pretty obvious that those who cause this unrest are against the West and its various representations. Simply put, to some extent, there is Muslim anger boiling beneath the surface thus this eruption is not just about the depiction of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh), but rather, a culmination of events which have come to a climax by how the perceived "West" has made a complete disregard for their beliefs. I doubt all these would've broken out had the editors been more tactful. The world is already walking on eggshells. We should all learn to be careful and avoid further stoking the flames of hatred.
ReplyDeleteIf the protests had been completely peaceful and nonviolent, I think the Continent's newspapers would not be seen as heroic. It's that unfortunate.
ReplyDeleteAkik - I can not fully explain why the UK demonstrations were the exception other than by referring to the local press interpretations. Some believe that Muslims in other European countries feel too intimidated to take to the streets or have merely responded in a more restrained manner by issueing carefully thought out 'press releases'. The situation in the UK is now being investigated by the police as to who those people demonstrating in the UK were - and there is talk of pressing charges because they were calling for 'murder' 'kill' etc..
ReplyDelete"Yet others argue that it's only the caricatures that are offensive, because they depict Islam as a dangerous religion which exalts its followers to war and blow people up."
ReplyDeleteSmart of you to portray the people who made that above statement as one with the protestors with the appalling sentiments. However, I should point out that there is no proof that your pictured protestors think that way. What you have done is to group the thought of Muslims under an umbrella - which is baseless, inaccurate and misleading.
i agree with Azimin. my point in my post on my own blog and my comment in the other post is that, yes, you have the freedom of expression, but please be responsible with what you say, be tactful if you can, know that what you say have consequences, intended or not. and while you can exercise your freedom of expression, please, hell, don't fan the flames, don't add oil to fire. if you do, then you are damn freaking stupid and ought to be shot.
ReplyDeletei think the comment "it's only the caricatures that are offensive, because they depict Islam as a dangerous religion which exalts its followers to war and blow people up." in no way implies that anyone thinks that all the protesters feel that way. i am conjecturing that there might be some who feel that way. but you are right. it is baseless. it is an assumption which i thought sounds logical. if anyone finds it misleading and/or offensive, i apologise and withdraw that statement completely.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteif you do, then you are damn freaking stupid and ought to be shot.
ReplyDeleteI take it then that you applaud the murder of Andreo Santaro?
A teenage boy shot and killed the Italian Roman Catholic priest of a church in the Black Sea port city of Trabzon on Sunday, shouting "God is great" as he escaped, according to police and witnesses.
Akikonomu:
ReplyDeleteno, i don't applaud that shooting because i don't think the good priest did anything irresponsible and/or insensitive to fan flames of hatred and add oil to fire.
in fact, on the contrary, i condemn that shooting. not least because it is not helping the Muslim cause, not least because that shooting is against the true spirit of Islam (i.e. a very wholesome sort of Peace) and because the shooter is doing what i am actually against, i.e. fanning the flames of hatred, adding oil to fire.
i would, possibly, applaud the shooting of that shooter.
Whether who is right and who is wrong, it is of each individual's interpretation and reasoning.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I feel that every race and every religion should learn to understand and respect each other.
In my opinion, whatever happens, it is to good to cultivate NON-VIOLENCE in order to work towards PEACE & HARMONY.
To generate good thoughts when we wake up in the morning is a good way to start each day.
Append below are some verses which I find them very helpful to generate loving-kindness and compassion for others when we meet any crisis or unhappiness in our lives, which I would like to share with all of you. Hope you'll find them as useful and helpful too:-
1. With the thought of attaining
enlightenment
For the welfare of all beings,
Who (refer to anyone
surrounding us) are more
precious than a
wish-fulfilling jewel,
I will constantly practise
holding them dear.
2. Whenever I am with others
I will practice seeing myself
as the lowest of all,
And from the very depth of my
heart
I will respectfully hold others
as supreme.
3. In all actions I will examine
my mind
And the moment a disturbing
attitude arises,
Endangering myself and others,
I will firmly confront and
avert it.
(disturbing attitudes refer to
all the delusions such as
anger, hatred, jealousy,
ill-intent, killing, etc....)
4. Whenever I meet a person of bad
nature
Who is overwhelmed by negative
energy and intense suffering,
I will hold such a rare one
dear,
As if I had found a precious
treasure.
5. When others, out of jealousy,
Mistreat me with abuse, slander
and so on,
I will practise accepting
defeat
And offering the victory to
them.
6. When someone I have benefited
And in whom I have placed great
trust
Hurts me very badly,
I will practice seeing that
person as my supreme teacher.
7. In short, I will offer directly
and indirectly
Every benefit and happiness to
all beings, I will practise
in secret taking upon myself
All their harmful actions and
sufferings.
8. Without these practices being
defiled by the stains of the
eight worldly concerns,
By perceiving all phenomena as
illusory,
I will practise without
grasping to release all beings
From the bondage of the
disturbing unsubdued mind and
karma.
(eight worlding concerns refer
to:
1,2) wealth and poverty
3,4) fame and infamous
5,6) appreciation and blame
7,8) joy and sadness/sickness)
Of course, it is not easy to practise the above but constantly meditate on these verses do help to cultivate loving-kindness and compassion gradually. It takes time and great effort to do so. But never give up, you'll see the result - NOT INSTANTLY but one day you may suddenly discover a change in your mind! Ah, that is the RESULT!
May all sentient beings be well and happy;
May all sentient-beings be free from suffering and its causes;
With much love
Anon
ah! finally! an anonymous comment that makes much much sense.
ReplyDeletethanks for all the warm fuzzy feeling. i completely agree with you (despite appearances from my comments/posts). i do believe in non-violence and responsible, engaging dialogue based on mutual respect so as to develop a peaceful and harmonious world.
isnt this the real story for Singapore...
ReplyDeletefrom the nation newspaper in BKK..
SHARE SALE FURORE: Singapore warned: drop Shin takeover
Published on February 07, 2006
Critics demand island state ‘must cancel’ deal as Thai anger at Temasek is threatening to boil over. Singapore was warned yesterday to stop Temasek’s purchase of Shin Corp otherwise it would face the wrath of the people of Thailand.
Leading critics and academics slammed Singapore for making no attempt to explain its intentions for Shin Corp nor reconciling with the Thai public over their fears of seeing a company that has security implications for the country being taken over by foreigners. They urged Tema-sek to pull out of the investment.
A seminar, “The Shin Corp Deal: International Dimensions” at Chulalongkorn University, urged Temasek to explain its reasons for buying Shin Corp, which has operations that relate to national security and strategic interests.
Professor Suchit Bunbongkarn, of the Institute of Security and International Studies, urged Tema-sek and Singapore to take into account public anger fuelled by an absence of business and political ethics in the deal.
“Businessmen and those in political power should have greater social responsibility. They have to raise the moral standards in their decisions,” Suchit said.
As the force of globalisation has brought business, politics and economics closer together, each factor could affect another. “We should be able to rely on ethics and morality, not legality alone,” said Suchit, a former judge of the Constitution Court.
Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is under fire for allowing Temasek to acquire a 49.6 per cent stake in Shin Corp, whose subsidiaries include Advanced Info Service (AIS), iTV and Shin Sat. The Singaporean firm bought the shares from the Shinawatra and Damapong families, who were not required to pay tax on the Bt73-billion deal.
Somkiat Tangkitvanich, research director at Thailand Development Research Institute, said his main concern was not the market being forced open, but that the deal involved broadcasting and satellite businesses that are deemed national assets. iTV and Shin Sat are national assets, which have political and security implications and should not be placed in foreign hands, he said.
The critics were also sceptical of Singapore’s intentions. Temasek said in its report to the Securities and Exchange Commission that it was interested in Shin Corp and AIS and considered the other subsidiaries such as Shin Sat, Thai AirAsia and iTV as “immaterial assets”. Thus, it would launch tender offers only for Shin Corp and AIS.
Democrat MP Korn Chatikavanij urged the company and the Singapore government to come out and make the issue clear. “So far, Singapore has kept silent.”
From the beginning, Temasek Holdings indicated it only wanted to buy AIS, a lucrative mobile business. But it had not said what it planned to do with the other subsidiaries. “They should come out and say what Singapore is going to do with Shin Satellite and iTV,” Korn said.
Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political lecturer at Chulalongkorn University, said Singapore had unintentionally become involved in Thai domestic politics after buying a controlling stake in Shin Corp, even though profit and opportunism drove Temasek’s decision. Thitinan said Shin Corp’s business concessions were fraught with controversy and conflict-of-interest allegations right from the start.
Thitinan wondered whether Thailand could claim back frequencies on Shin Sat and iTV from Temasek. He was also worried about the potential for political violence if Thaksin did not step down soon or dissolve Parliament.
Kasit Bhiromya, a former Thai ambassador to Washington DC, urged the Singapore government to think about withdrawing the investment. He pointed out that Temasek is owned by the Singapore government so when it takes over a Thai company, it is not an ordinary corporate take-over. Moreover, some of the concessions were considered strategic industries. He said the deal might spark disagreement from the public, citing the recent US congress objection to the bid by China National Offshore Oil Corp to acquire Unocal, the US-based energy firm.
Suchit agreed with Kasit, saying Temasek and the Singapore government should pull out from the deal.
“People have not yet organised rallies against the Singapore government because they are still busy organising protests against the Thaksin government. But not for long. We may see people turn out against Singapore,” Korn warned.
Somkiat said the sale of Shin Corp had automatically liberalised the telecom sector. He said he was not concerned about market liberalisation, but it should only be done after the regulatory framework to safeguard public and consumer interests was put in place.
Korn promised the Democrats would launch a no-confidence motion against specific ministers in the Thaksin Cabinet. He said the Democrats could not find enough votes for a no-confidence motion against Thaksin, even though some factions in the ruling Thai Rak Thai Party might join the Democrat’s move to question Thaksin’s legitimacy.
Korn predicted conflict of interest would remain a problematic issue for Thaksin, although his family earlier said the sale of Shin Corp would negate this and enable Thaksin to continue his political career without criticism.
Wichit Chaitrong
The Nation
I find it somewhat uncanny and ironic in the violence preached on the placards of some protesters, that they are working against the very message they are trying to say; that islam is not dangerous. Of course, without dangerously generalising muslims, we can say that the protesters responsible for torching buildings and bearing death threats on their placards are dangerous fundamentalists that aren't doing any good in proving the caricatures wrong. I personally haven't been keeping up with the news lately, but I noticed the English copper in the background in one of the pictures. And I have to say, I think it takes some sizeable balls to actually preach the killing of europeans on european soil. Particularly if you are considered an English citizen. To tell "freedom go to hell" when you live in a free country. Such treason!
ReplyDeleteI can't speak of why there was not a mass protest in the 3 european countries, but the UK does have a history of racial segregation which I believe can attribute to the local fundamentalist groups and the spread of extreme ideologies. Read this interesting article by TIME magazine here:
http://www.time.com/time/europe/html/051031/story.html
Since the London bombings, the muslim community here have faced their own repercussions from the highest levels; a bill was passed so that any muslim suspected for a terrorist can be held in detention without evidence or trial. In addition, I believe there are still issues with racial segregation in some parts of the UK. The article linked above provides good insight on this subject.
I appreciate the anon's cuddly-wuddly and somewhat naive perspective on 'peace and harmony'. But religion today is highly controversial and more sensitive than ever. You have to wonder at some point, why it is that Christianity and Islam have been associated with so much bloodshed in the past. It is probably because of the magnitude of commitment that these 2 religions require and hence, its ability to unite and bond worshippers together, in addition to the fundamental desire to propagate their religion.
Commitment is an unusual yet potentially powerful thing that affects reasoning beyond logic. A study showed that a married man, when offered a brand new, identical wedding ring to that of his own, would usually opt to keep his original ring. In marriage, a simple ring can mean and symbolise everything that is important to a person. Amongst extremists, commitment to an ideology and belief drives them to do whatever is asked of them in the name of their religion. Reasoning is out of the question.
Nonetheless, we should never make the mistake of confusing the -ism with the -ist. Never let the actions of such extremists taint the image of a religion and majority of its followers. But realise that the uprise of fundamentalists is no small thing either.
Yes I agree with what you said.
ReplyDeleteBut, on the other hand,the fundamental teachings of every religion is that of love. I assume those protestors now are those "true Muslims".
What is deemed to be an "insult" depends on how one's perspectives and practice on tolerance and patience towards any bad situation that arises.
Next, why do one feel so insulted? It is all due to one's BIG EGO being hurt.
A good example to cite is that of the invasion of Tibet by the Chinese. Such invasion involved destruction of temples, including buddha statues and buddhist scriptures, etc. Literally, the destruction of Tibetan Buddhism as a whole.
Besides, lamas and Tibetans were captured, tortured and even executed.
Do you think this invasion of Tibet is equally bad or might be considered worse off than the cartoon caricatures situation now?
Until today, the Tibetans are still suffering silently. His Holiness Dalai Lama, as both a spiritual and poliitcal leader, has always been so calm and constantly advises his people not to react with VIOLENCE.
But more often than not, people tend to view non-violence as a "weak" option to solve problem. Is this true?
All bad emotional thoughts (such as anger, hatred, jealousy,etc) will arouse bad and harsh speech and violent actions. Quote from Dhamapada: "The mind is the forerunner of everything."
Once we are overwhelmed with all these delusions, we lose control of our body, speech and mind, that is to say, we will act irrationallly.
And that leads to one party provotes and the other party will react accordingly. This will to lead to a mass violence and the consequence of it will cause bloodshed and immeasurable sufferings from all parties involved, as we can see the present situation is culminating.
On the contrary, non-violence could make one be more composed, more calm and allow one to think more rationally and objectively.
Anyway, hatred can only be conquered by love and not by hatred.
"But religion today is highly controversial and more sensitive than ever.....Christianity and Islam ........ Amongst extremists, commitment to an ideology and belief drives them to do whatever is asked of them in the name of their religion. Reasoning is out of the question."
ReplyDeleteWhat drives these religious people and extremists to react in this way?
Again, all these bad happenings were done purely out of "greed, hatred, jealousy, fame,etc" and the extremists done out of "distorted views" which they have developed out of their religion.
And the true driving force behind all these actions was the "EGO".
What is the "real ego"? It is a different sort of ego from that of the usual understanding of the conventional ego.
It is a profound teachings in Buddhism that identify the "real ego" (of a subtle mind and consciousness) as something so true and so concrete within us that gives us a true self-identity that we constantly, day and night, protect it very well from being hurt.
By the way, the above eight verses of thought transformations were composed by the great Master of the lineage and are being practised by His Holiness Dalai Lama, which I hope is of useful to you all too.
Thanks very much for sharing with me. Have a nice week ahead!
Let's take a 'us against them' mentality for a moment.
ReplyDeletethem - Some cartoons were drawn.
us - React by kiiling some people
Make your conclusion.
First and foremost, the act of "killing" itself is bad.
ReplyDeleteAnd what's the driving force behind this action of killing? It is the ego within us that is "so big and so great", "so concrete and so true" that "I" cannot let down my ego, therefore, "I" must get back on others who hurt it.
As I had already mentioned, how the mind works - through the angry mind, then comes the harsh speech and follows by physical action. And then violence starts. If action is out of control, killing comes.
It's like once the fire sparks off, it ignites the whole tree to be burnt and the fire subsequently spreads throughout the whole forest and burnt down all the trees in the forest. The consequence is devastating.
Problems can be solved through proper communication without violence at all.
For eg, if someone were to say your head has two horns. But you know you don't have horns on your head at all and everyone can see for themselves, who cares about this sort of insult? If the need be, request for an answer why he said that to you?
Yes, you may say it is easier said than done. True but we could still anger without hitting back or without starting the violence.
Control of anger and the practice of patience and tolerance is the key factor. That's why it is good to practice the 8 verses of thought transformation during normal times - acquainting our mind first and prepares it when the real situation comes, then we know how to react accordingly with a more calm and steady mind.
Your pictures are a perfect complement to the cartoons - a pathetic attempt to reduce a civilisation and culture to little more than a bloodied scimitar. Ah well, only to be expected from one who beckons from a country where an opinion is something one reserves only for the quality of a dumpling floating in a bowl.
ReplyDeletethey are admiting to the cartoon that they are a violent bunch.
ReplyDeleteLink, show, what's the diff. Doing so is akin to slowing down on the highway so you can get a better view of the car accident that has just taken place. True, there's something to see. But does one have to look in the first place to appreciate the depths of grief that the victims' loved ones are going through? Viewing the cartoons is redundant. And so are these pictures.
ReplyDeleteYou have here, and elsewhere as well, people who stake all their beliefs, their entire lives, their entire existences, on one book.
One singular book.
What you have is a lit class that can have REALLY TENSE debates at times. Just because there's a prick or two in the class who likes to scream, shout, hit and kill people, doesn't mean that all the other classmates are like that. Or that lit is bad in the first place. Geez Akik, why are you handing one of these class pricks a freaking pedestal??
Thank you!
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