By Connie Levett
South-East Asia Correspondent
SingaporeFebruary 2, 2005
Singapore'S Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong yesterday offered little hope to Melbourne man Nguyen Tuong Van, on death row for drug trafficking, despite an appeal for clemency from Prime Minister John Howard.
"It is a very serious offence and in Singapore we treat (drug crime) very seriously," Mr Lee said.
Nyugen's final hope lies with Singaporean President S.R. Nathan, who has the power to spare his his life. This would be on the advice of the cabinet, although such appeals have rarely been granted.
"We have a received a petition for clemency from the Governor-General, and we are waiting for a petition from the prisoner himself. He has another month to file," Mr Lee said.
"Singapore has always taken a very firm line as the only way we can maintain Singapore as a drug-free clean society," he said.
Cabinet would consider the individual circumstances of Nguyen's case, Mr Lee said.
Mr Howard said there were compassionate reasons to spare the 24-year-old from the death penalty.
Nguyen was convicted last March of importing 396.2 grams of diamorphine (heroin) into Singapore on December 2002.
He was in transit from Cambodia to Australia and was arrested as he waited to board a Qantas flight to Melbourne.
He told officials at the time that he had smuggled the drugs to help pay off his twin brother's debts.
Mr Howard said Nguyen had co-operated with authorities.
"He was, although engaged in a criminal act, endeavouring to secure financial resources to help a family member and I'll be putting those issues in the hope they will be taken into account by the President of Singapore in the final decision," he said.
When asked if Nyguen's execution would affect bilateral relations, Mr Howard said: "I believe there is a very good case for clemency, but people must understand that the laws of Singapore are well known."
Mr Howard was in Singapore for a day of meetings with the country's three most senior politicians: Prime Minister Lee, Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong and Mr Lee's father, Lee Kuan Yew, Singapore's founding prime minister who now acts as minister mentor to his son.
Mr Howard and Mr Lee also discussed access for Singapore Airlines to lucrative air routes through Australia to the west coast of America.
Discussions are under way in Australia and Mr Howard refused to put a schedule on when the issue would be resolved.
"I think the important thing is what comes out rather than a time imperative on them," Mr Howard said.
Mr Howard also visited the Kranji War cemetery to lay a wreath, saying of all the dramatic events of the Pacific War, "none was more deeply in the Australian psyche than the fall of Singapore".
Previous posts linked to this case are listed below:
Battle to stop a hanging Saturday, July 24, 2004
Singapore defers judgment of Australian drug trafficker Tuesday, July 27, 2004
Mother begs for drug smuggler's lifeThursday, July 29, 2004
Do you know what drugs does to peoples' lives?
ReplyDeletewould you care to elaborate? then perhaps we could weigh the negatives of drug trafficking and abuse and see if the death penalty is a proportionate means of curbing drug trafficking/abuse.
ReplyDeleteNo, you're right. It's much more humane to reduce the deterrent for drug peddling, so that more people will resort to smuggling drugs to teens when they need money. Stupid Australian teens who take drugs and later screw up their lives and commit suicide deserve it because they chose to take drugs. Singapore, which clearly states the penalties for heroin smuggling, is a cruel country compared to western states which will give drug peddlers a chance to live, even if it means more people bringing in drugs to stupid teens.
ReplyDeletePea, ever heard of a species larger than a country, or continent, called 'humanity'? Surely I am allowed to take an interest in my fellow man and woman regardless of nationality. The PAP have signed the United Nations declaration of human rights, and like many other countries have failed to act upon that promise.
ReplyDeleteYou are ignoring the fact that Singapore has committed itself to the human right protocols. In other words, SG has an obligation to observe something which they have made a commitment to. Globally, Sg owes much of it success on external factors such as foreign trade and this is perhaps a motivational factor for them to make such committments - this is to gain acceptance by other nations who similarly adhere to the codes. By doing so, these nations will feel more inclined to trade with Sg rather than countries who have not signed the protocol.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, when you say that it 'cant be applied so sweepingly to whatever suits your cause', the SG government can't just apply whatever 'suits their cause'. What they are doing is reaping the benefits of the protocol without care to observe their obligations to the protocol which as you say may have serious social costs in Singapore.
I am not saying the government should not protect people. Neither do I claim that drug trafficking is not a bane to our society. What I am questioning is if the death penalty is the appropriate penalty? What about a lengthy jail sentence? That would serve as a deterrent as well.
You may be tempted to argue that a jail sentence or fine will not be sufficient to prevent people from trafficking. However, in maintaining law, adherence to proportionality is essential. Cutting off the arms of burglary and pickpocketing offenders will certainly deter people from doing so, but should the government therefore impose such laws rather than a jail term? I think not.
Irony is that you choose the word 'savage' in describing a perceived lack of lawlessness. Is it not 'savage' to take a person's life in cold blood?
Thanks for your enlightening discourse on this matter and clarification on some of the issues I raised, inadequately, as it may be. No doubt to your credible sources.
ReplyDeleteEven if Sg does indeed comply with all its global obligations, Singapore cannot just base its qualifications on capital punishment without giving regard to shift in mindsets of countries with affilations with Singapore (such as US and Australia) with regard to capital punishment. Perhaps a 'mind your own business, don't tell us how to govern our nation' attitude is inappropriate, since it is noteworthy that these countries usually raise issues when their citizens are caught within the jurisdiction of singapore, not when sg deals with their own citizens. Therefore, is it not that their own governments are trying to protect their own citizens (foolish as they may be, given the world renowned fact of Sg's stringent laws on drug trafficking) as well?
(Also ancillary to the point on whether we should have capital punishment in singapore.)
I think we should look at the substance rather than the form of things.
ReplyDeleteWhen a drug peddler pushes drugs to a person, or when a person takes drugs, in many cases he's sentencing himself to death. Or perhaps a fate worse than death.
Just by making it known that S'pore has the death penalty, we have perhaps reduced the number of deaths from drugs. On the other hand, had we not had such a penalty, perhaps more people's lives would be ruined because of drugs. So what's real kindness? Conforming to the western concept of human rights (which is to ban capital punishment but pump billions into killing iraqis) or stating clearly from the onset that trafficking is punishable by death?
It's sad when S'pore actually has to enforce it because someone chose to take a gamble. But the mere existence of this rule has saved a lot of people from themselves, so on the balance I think the west is not necessarily more kind, in that sense. More often than not westerners pay attention to how it looks on the surface rather than delve deeply into what it really means to be moral, and what it means to respect human rights.
And for the record, no country will do business with you if it didn't benefit their bottom line. They won't even do business in their own country if it doesn't benefit their bottom line! So do not assume foreign companies are here as a favor to us. If we didn't have the infrastructure, the skilled workforce and the political stability, they wouldn't be here.
ReplyDeleteThem's are the laws in Singapore as regards drugs. The vietnamese guy knew the possible consequences of getting caught trafficking. He went ahead anyway. No one held a gun to his head. I have debts too, but no amount of debt would cause me to attempt anything of that nature within 100 miles of Singapore. He's stupid, he'll just have to face the consequences. So it goes!
ReplyDeleteCorrect me if I am wrong, but the less drugs there are in Singapore, the better right? And if people are deterred by the law, supply is less, so it should be better for stupid teens who want to take drugs?
ReplyDeleteWe can't reduce the amount of drugs in Singapore by hanging the people who bring it in per se. We reduce this number by making the law known, and enforcing it when some unfortunate soul gets caught. This way at least rational people are able to weight the costs and benefits of doing so, and a number will be deterred. The Law purely works because it's a deterrent, and loses its effectiveness if clemency is given.
I am truly sorry for the young man, but I think his "special circumstances" are irrelevant. Everyone has reasons for doing things. There are millions of people in debt and it would be terrible if all of them justified their smuggling death capsules to other people just because they need money.
And America kills its prisoners too. (Timothy Mcveigh)
Plus, if one of your kind bombs them, your entire country gets flattened. (Iraq)
Are drugs really that bad? Yes people die. Yes families are destroyed. Now I am just going to throw this out there and see what happens.
ReplyDeleteIf all drugs were legalised and available through controlled, legal, validated means, tested and standardised, with 'officers' working to ensure knowledge of the use and dangers of their use, would the situation be better than today? What signals would this send to the population of Singapore?
For me speaking personally, the problem wider society has with drugs is not that they kill people, many things kill people, but is the social rejection of 'drugs' something to do with a fear that people are trying to escape society. A society that 'we' built and 'they' reject?
A kind of Durkheimian question!
So your solution is to allow Mankind to escape his problems not by facing them, but by allowing them to pop a pill when they feel the weight of the world is too much for them.
ReplyDeleteHey you know what? Maybe that's why the British insisted sold opium to China last time, creating a nation of addicts ( Hence the term "Sick Man of the East") although Britain thoughtfully banned the use of opium as a non-medicinal drug in its own country.
Why don't you get the rest of the world to legalise drugs (Including ice and what have you not), then we'll see if it works?
You haven't addressed the point abt the young man smuggling a huge amount of drugs. Was it entirely to pay off his bro's debts or did he want to make a pile from it as well?
From my limited knowledge of sociology, 2 of the models to explain Man's behaviour are the REMM theory and the Social Victim model. You're using the social victim model which pictures nguyen as a victim because he didn't really want to, circumstances forceed him. The REMM model postulates that individuals make cost-benefit decisions and choose the choice that they get the most utility out of. I'm afraid Nguyen chose money over life, Steve.
When you get students who don't study and you have to fail them, do you blame yourself for giving them a low grade or tell them to study harder next time?
I'm sorry, but steve isn't like copernicus or poor galileo who got persecuted for views which actually benefit mankind but go against the ruling body.
ReplyDeleteEven if marijuana is somehow good for us, the thing with drug smuggling is that you can't say "smuggle in marijuana, don't smuggle in the more exciting and harmful drugs". People develop a dependence on the drugs:it's necessary to increase the dosage to get bigger kicks.
There must be a reason why even marijuana is taboo in US (though kids do us it), the most liberal of places. Why are people like Robert Downey Junior and Matthew Perry bothering to quit when drugs is okay?
There's a diffence between unconventional and plain ridiculous.
And I do agree that cigarettes and alcohol (and coffee, while you're at it) are harmful, but surely you're not suggesting Singapore becomes the world's first country to ban these? The difference lies in the matter of degree. Otherwise instead of having a cuppa in the morning you might as well blaze up a dooby,
ReplyDeleteGK, thanks for labelling me ignorant. But I'm not a lawyer by training, but an accountant. Theoretically legalising coffee and marijuana is the same, but is it really? I can only base my arguments on common sense rather than high level philosophical arguments lawyers seem to be fond of. And I am a cofee lover, but I am very aware of its effects as felt by me, not based on info put out by goodness knows who. If marijuana is the same as coffee, would u jump if u learnt ur kid is smoking pot? Apart from the actual effects of it, there are social connotations related to it. Even in US it is taboo, though it is legal. Yes, I learnt about Prohibition, so even US went through some periods of testing. Should we ban alcohol? Well, theoretically we should ban those who have a tendency to abuse substances, but how do we practically implement that? It's all about cost and benefit. What are the benefits of legalising drugs?
ReplyDeleteAnd drugs like opium were legalised when the British ruled Singapore, but if u read up on history, the Chinese got ruined by it. That's how the term Dong ya bing fu came about. Even earlier, the British sold opium to China, and this resulted in the Opium war. That's how the British got hold of HongKong.
There's more than a social stigma when one gets addicted to drugs. I may be addicted to coffee, but I can take it once every 2/3 days, and I'm not going to rob or kill for a dose of coffee. Can the same be said for drug addicts?
And if a person were to start telling your loved ones why taking coffee is no different than smoking pot, what would your first reaction be? To agree that there's theoretically no difference, or to tell this person to buzz off?
My reasoning may not be as high level as yours, but I believe these are pertinent questions.
And I urge Steve to read up on what the British are capable of doing in the name of following rules made by their own kind. The Opium war is a perfect example of how westerners insist that their concept of human rights is The concept, while ignoring basic human decency.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM
Thanks for your links, here's one of my own. Steve isn't ahead of his own time. The British, being civilised and all, had sold drugs legitimately to China in the 1800s, (of course banning it in their own country).
" The Opium War, also called the Anglo-Chinese War, was the most humiliating defeat China ever suffered. In European history, it is perhaps the most sordid, base, and vicious event in European history, possibly, just possibly, overshadowed by the excesses of the Third Reich in the twentieth century.
By the 1830's, the English had become the major drug-trafficking criminal organization in the world; very few drug cartels of the twentieth century can even touch the England of the early nineteenth century in sheer size of criminality. Growing opium in India, the East India Company shipped tons of opium into Canton which it traded for Chinese manufactured goods and for tea. This trade had produced, quite literally, a country filled with drug addicts, as opium parlors proliferated all throughout China in the early part of the nineteenth century. This trafficing, it should be stressed, was a criminal activity after 1836, but the British traders generously bribed Canton officials in order to keep the opium traffic flowing. The effects on Chinese society were devestating. In fact, there are few periods in Chinese history that approach the early nineteenth century in terms of pure human misery and tragedy. In an effort to stem the tragedy, the imperial government made opium illegal in 1836 and began to aggressively close down the opium dens. "
Drugs were first legalised, then made illegal after people experienced the effects of drugs.
Unless you want to be dependent on drug producing countries for trade, no one should be advocating encouraging addiction. I'm guessing the prices would rise anyway, because everyone would really need the drugs and the usual laws of supply and demand hold. And when the world is dependent on drugs to function, the Bermuda triangle countries will move from third world to first, and they will have enlightened people like yourself to thank.
Just to refute your statement that marijuana is not that harmful:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/marijuana.html
http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
I find your assumptions that people can regulate their use of drugs faulty. The problem with drugs is that people become addicted, lose control (to varying extents), and go on to more addictive and extreme form of drugs.
Hi GK,
ReplyDeleteMy aim of bringing in the opium war: "The Opium war is a perfect example of how westerners insist that their concept of human rights is The concept, while ignoring basic human decency."
There are several elements to the debate about legalisin drugs. One aspect, which Steve is using to boost his argument supporting its legalisation is that if social stigma caused by making it illegal is harmful, thus we should abolish it. He doesn't look at elements like the state's right to protect and the actual harm health does to one's body. And the fact that drug addicts are not in control. Controlled drug abuse is an oxymoron, isn't it? The thing about drugs is that events spiral out of control. How many drug abusers could have predicted that they would end up shooting themselves, ended up using more exciting forms of drugs, and ended up totally dependent on drugs? Here's a nasty side effect of drugs:
Needle Fixation: A person with a needle fixation enjoys and often craves the act of injecting a drug, as much as the drug itself - often the two pleasures go hand in hand. Such a user will divide the 'fix' into as many shots as possible, craving the actual injection and associated 'rush' into the veins. The user may also resort to other substances just to satisfy this urge, quite often collapsing veins in the process.
In the first place, marijuana was brought up as an example of how even the Americans don't tolerate it. Here Steve is saying that Singapore is archaic for disallowing drugs, when it is taboo even in the US to take drugs.
I believe opium is an important instance of how the entire Chinese fighting force was rendered useless by voluntary usage of a legal drug (in China but not in Britain)The side effects of opium are much less harmful than marijuana, or the very first drug discussed, heroin. However, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. That is what it did to the Chinese.
Thus I am urging Steve to push for his radical law to be passed in his country before expecting Singaporeans to champion for it. (And saying that those of us fuddy-duddies who oppose it are like people persecuting great scientists) If you really believe that legalising drugs is the answer to mankind's drug related problems, then you MUST push for what you believe in.
GK: I do read your blog, and I enjoy reading it.
ReplyDeleteIt's just that when people start discussing how theoretically, legalising (and thus sanctioning) drug taking is a good thing, I'm going to please ask you to set an example in your own country before you expect us to do this. Nevermind that you are asking me to disregard my views based on what I actually know, and based on common sense.
I think purely theoretical debate doesn't make much sense. So, if you disallow your child to take pot, you should also disallow your child to drink socially? Or to take a jog? Or (Since your stand is to legalise marijuana) You wouldn't discourage your child from taking marijuana if you wouldn't discourage him from jogging?
And as for coffee, whether you experience side effects depends on your constitution. Caffeine causes sleeplessness in some, and many people can't function without their first cuppa. Coffee also zaps nutrients from your body. As teeth are porous, coffee makes teeth more yellow. It is possible that you experienced none of these side effects, in which case there would be no
reason to quit it. But why did you want to quit it, if you hadn't experienced any side effects?
Well done Mr G.! I think that some S'poreans need to think outside the square... and possibly travel outside it as well before placing judgements on other countries and their citizens. Experience life in a country where the government does not treat you like a toy soldier, a country where you have freedom and signing up for the army to be under government control for as long as possible isn't one of the most secure and well paid jobs available to its citizens. This is really sad, because Singapore is said to be such a stable country, yet the most influential and successful business people in the country are expats.
ReplyDeleteI am surprised by the reaction of some people in regards to this case. Is making a mistake really worth life?
One of the things I noticed while in Singapore is that religion plays a very important role to it's society. For such a religious country, I ponder at the thought of it being so easy to take away the life of a fellow human being, when it is religious figures whom gave up their lives so we could all be here.
On the point of knowing better and that the whole world should know of the harsh laws in Singapore... Ask half of the world where Singapore is? this is hard enough without questioning them on the laws of another country. The only time I was aware of the drug laws was when I read it on my entry pass which was handed out on the plane just before arrival in Singapore, I would think this would already be the point of no return.
Could you tell me the Australian laws for drug consumption and trafficking without researching?
I know when I have children I would rather them get high, be experimental and then get on with life instead of realising at 34 that they haven't really lived life by working 15hour shifts in a $3000per month job and end up committing suicide... because that's what is on the rise in Singapore and needs to be addressed by the government more urgently than experimenting with drugs. Make citizens happy and support government bodies, not just fear them!
i do NOT agree with your idea of "singabloodypore" you have No right to insult a country like that
ReplyDeletei come from your so-called impression of "singabloodypore" and i am proud to be from there. do not get the wrong idea, i am not being bias, but one thing is certain: you are. nguyen was trying to save his brother, yes i agree, that was a good thing. but taking up drug trafficking to raise the money! thats going too far. people buy the drugs in singapore. then what happens? they get poisoned. and not just one of them. a whole lot gets poisoned. it affects their familys when they get hooked on it. at least 6 lives ruined for his brothers life. i think that is too far. say what you like, i dun care, but i am telling you, if i could report this blog, i would